The End of SXSW, the Craft of Marketing to Marketers and What’s Changing in 2026

James Lawrence: Welcome back to the Smarter Marketer Podcast. I’m here today with Alex Hayes. Alex, welcome to the pod.

Alex Hayes: Thanks for having me, James.

James Lawrence: Alex is founder of Clear Hayes, a B2B communications agency that specialises in marketing to marketers, which I think is an awesome area of specialisation.

Prior to founding Clear Hayes, Alex was editor of both B&T and Mumbrella. Alex, welcome to the pod.

Alex Hayes: Thanks for having me, James.

James Lawrence: I think lots of marketers in Australia, particularly listeners to the pod who went to South by Southwest, would’ve come across you from Clear Hayes House. I’m personally so sad about South by Southwest not continuing in Sydney next year. Is there any hope of it bouncing back somewhere?

Alex Hayes: Yeah, look, it’s a real shame. We ran Clear Hayes House for the three years that South by Southwest was going. It was at a Zaffi restaurant, which is why Zaffi Gary became our mascot. Basically, it was our activation — our chance to have a hub for the media, marketing and advertising community at South by Southwest.

The reaction to it ending has been tremendous — really sad, actually. It almost felt like a bereavement. It was a real shock. I had a small heads-up a couple of hours before the announcement, but nothing more than that.

When you boil it down and have conversations afterwards, you can understand why the decision was made in terms of funding. There are obviously commercial imperatives. TEG being the owner on this side, and Penske on the South by Southwest Austin side — there’s a need to make money.

It’s expensive to bring artists out. It’s expensive to bring talent out. You’ve got to pay for flights, hotels — it all mounts up. Then you’ve got to get bums on seats.

I think they did a great job building the brand and developing it into something that felt like an event for Australia, and probably wider APAC as well. But unfortunately, it was probably four or five years too late to really get traction.

What it has done is leave a big gap in the second half of the year. A lot of marketing industry events moved into the first half. It also leaves a gap in terms of that big moment where people from different places come together.

What I absolutely loved about the House was that, yes, we were there primarily for the media and marketing industry, but last year we had an astronaut come through the door for one of the sessions. Catherine Repé, one of the Australians of the Year this year. We had deep-sea oceanographers doing a pub quiz.

These are people you wouldn’t meet in day-to-day life. You wouldn’t come across them at a regular marketing conference. That’s where the magic of South by Southwest happens.

It’s a real shame that’s gone. I’ve heard rumours of a few things that might pop up in its place, but nothing I think will be on that scale. The money needed for that is enormous.

James Lawrence: Yeah, totally. I thoroughly enjoyed the programming of Clear Hayes House. I found the broader SXSW programming really interesting from a personal perspective and from a “where is technology heading?” lens. But Clear Hayes House was so practical for us working in marketing in Australia.

You had different tracks — in-house marketers on one day, agency owners on another — deep dives. It was also just an awesome opportunity to catch up with people. Former Rocket staff, agency owners, past clients who’ve moved businesses.

Is there any hope you’d put something on solo? Or is it just too big an undertaking without piggybacking off the bigger conference?

Alex Hayes: Never say never. We’re certainly having conversations with clients and partners about it. It wasn’t altruistic — there was a commercial imperative — but it wasn’t a money-making scheme either. I’m not retiring on a yacht after Clear Hayes House, sadly.

It’s a big thing. But where there’s a gap, there’s an opportunity. We’re talking about event-type formats. Maybe something around the indie agency concept — a day of programming, a long lunch — bringing people together.

That’s where the joy came from. Creating a space where people could connect. Yes, the content was great. Yes, we had fantastic speakers. But the magic was the serendipitous moments — bumping into someone you hadn’t seen in five years and sharing a drink or a meal.

Post-COVID, the number one reason people go to events is connection. It’s networking. It’s human interaction. Especially when many aren’t in the office much anymore. That’s what’s magical.

James Lawrence: Nice. If you’re watching this on YouTube and want one of the T-shirts Alex is wearing, reach out and we’ll connect you.

Alex Hayes: There we go.

James Lawrence: There aren’t many people who’ve straddled both sides — industry press and then setting up an agency. I’d love to hear that backstory and how journalism shaped your move.

Alex Hayes: Cliff notes version: I went to uni, studied philosophy and politics, didn’t know what I wanted to do. Got involved in the student paper, became sports editor, loved it.

In the UK, journalism isn’t treated as academic — it’s vocational. I did the NCTJ, which is like TAFE. We were studying alongside plumbers and mental health nurses. You learn shorthand, law, politics, and you go out and run a beat.

I worked on local newspapers in London — everything from village fairs to murders. Lots of local politics. If you want to push people’s buttons, ask about parking or bin collection.

I came through during the GFC. Cuts everywhere. I was moving up, but no one was coming in underneath. Burned out. Travelled. Came to Australia for a year and stayed.

I did gardening for a few months — digging holes and pruning bushes. Had a moment in a bush looking at a spider thinking, “I’m not in London anymore.”

Eventually applied for jobs and became deputy editor at B&T. I didn’t know much about marketing, but I loved it. Marketing is deeply human. It’s someone trying to sell something to someone else.

After 18 months, I became editor. Then moved to Mumbrella for three years. Covered big topics — media comms scandals, Cannes Lions, industry culture issues. It was exhausting. We had very active comment threads. Some of the unpublished comments were awful — death threats, abuse. It takes a toll.

Later I ran paid content and events. Noticed a gap: brands marketing to marketers weren’t always thinking audience-first. Journalism drums that into you. If it’s not for the audience, forget it.

Eventually got made redundant during a restructure. Set up an ABN. A few people asked me to work on projects. That’s how Clear Hayes started. It’s grown organically for eight years.

James Lawrence: I love the honesty — not pretending it was always the grand vision.

Now you’ve got a global footprint, right?

Alex Hayes: Yeah. We’ve got someone in New Zealand. We service the UK and US. Increasingly Europe. We’re looking to hire in the UK soon.

It was important not to be stuck in the APAC bubble. Seeing what’s happening globally helps us give clients perspective. We attend conferences, create content internationally, and often see trends 6–18 months before they land here.

That makes us more strategic partners — not just “get me out there and do PR.”

James Lawrence: Love it. Let’s talk marketing to marketers. Salespeople love being sold to. Do marketers love being marketed to?

Alex Hayes: Most enjoy it — if it’s done well. What they don’t like is being sold to.

In the US, there’s more tolerance for direct sales. In Australia, the UK and Europe, you can’t be salesy. You’ve got to connect the dots between what you’re selling and the problem they’re trying to solve.

Marketers are busy. Managing up, managing down, managing vendors. They don’t need more complexity. You need to make it engaging, human, entertaining.

There’s too much dull, rational B2B messaging. Yes, product benefit matters. But you’ve got to make people want it.

Our tagline is “Don’t be boring.” And we try to live that.

James Lawrence: It shows. There’s definitely a shift — B2B doesn’t have to be boring. B2B buyers are emotional too. Losing your job over a bad decision is more personal than buying the wrong appliance.

Alex Hayes: Exactly. You don’t lose your humanity when you walk into the office. We’re competing with Netflix, news, podcasts — everything.

We push big tech clients to humanise their stories. It’s easy to hate a platform in aggregate. Harder when you meet the humans building it.

James Lawrence: Any examples of work that cut through?

Alex Hayes: One that comes to mind is a podcast we launched in 2018 for Facebook — Face to Face. Started as a video series. Didn’t quite resonate.

We brought in podcast experts, shifted to longer-form storytelling with rich audio production. It became a 30–40 minute interview show pulling out campaign stories.

We did three series. Hit number one in marketing and business podcasts on Apple in Australia. Over 100,000 downloads. Won Adweek’s Marketing Podcast of the Year in 2019.

For a small Aussie podcast, that was huge.

The lesson? Media is habit. You earn your place. You won’t get it perfect first time. You iterate and improve.

James Lawrence: What are you seeing as themes for 2026?

Alex Hayes: Simplification. Marketing can be complex if you want it to be. But many are realising brand matters more than ever.

We work with analytics partners. The data shows brand campaigns compound performance results significantly.

Creative wear-out is often overestimated. Woolworths reran their Christmas campaign. Most consumers didn’t notice. They saved money and reinvested.

Agility is key. Easier than ever to spin up assets and test. Agencies adapting their models are winning.

Upskilling is another trend. Many marketers haven’t come through formal training. That diversity is great — but fundamentals still matter. Especially proving value.

Money isn’t abundant. You need to show impact and earn trust.

Longer term, marketing needs repositioning in the business. It’s not the colouring-in department. It’s a driver of growth.

James Lawrence: It’s on us to do that.

Alex Hayes: Exactly. We need to understand P&Ls, push back with data, show business impact.

Australia actually over-indexes on marketing science. Ritson, Ehrenberg-Bass, Karen Nelson-Field — they’ve shaped global thinking.

There’s huge opportunity if we apply it well.

James Lawrence: Marketers have done a terrible job marketing marketing.

Alex Hayes: True. If we celebrate vanity metrics, we lose credibility. We’re here to drive business — sales today and demand tomorrow.

James Lawrence: Mate, it’s been awesome having you on. Really appreciate it.

Alex Hayes: Thanks so much, James.

James Lawrence: Thanks, mate.